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Re: glm or glmm?

To: Henrik Parn <parn@nt.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: glm or glmm?
From: Prof Brian Ripley <ripley@stats.ox.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:27:29 +0000 (GMT)
Cc: s-news@lists.biostat.wustl.edu
In-reply-to: <41C6F8EC.6000403@nt.ntnu.no>
References: <41C6F8EC.6000403@nt.ntnu.no>
This isn't a random factor, as you only have one response (the proportion) per mother. You may well get extra-binomial variation if the mothers differ in ways not explained by the `traits', so if you do, look up how to handle `over-dispersion' in GLMs.

On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Henrik Parn wrote:

Dear S-users,

I am working on a bird where a female either mate with her social partner, or with other males in the surrounding territories. The offspring in a nest thus all have the same mother, but can be sired by one or more males. I divide the offspring into two groups: within-pair offspring (WPO) or extra-pair offspring (EPO). My data set is arranged with one female (nest) per row and with data on: number of WPO, number of EPO and different female traits.

My object is to relate the proportion of extra-pair offspring in a nest to different traits off the mother. I have defined an EP-offspring as success, and WP-offspring as failure. I first planned to use an ordinary glm:
y<-cbind(number of EPO, number of WPO)
glm(y~mother.trait, family=binomial)

However, now I am a unsure whether I need to include 'mother ID' as a random factor. I.e whether to treat the respons variable (EPO vs WPO per nest) as a single measure per female. Or should I instead 'imagine' the response as several measures per female: one measure (EPO or WPO) per offspring in her nest, and all offspring in her nest having the same random factor 'mother ID'? If I need a random factor, which glmm do you suggest?

--
Brian D. Ripley,                  ripley@stats.ox.ac.uk
Professor of Applied Statistics,  http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~ripley/
University of Oxford,             Tel:  +44 1865 272861 (self)
1 South Parks Road,                     +44 1865 272866 (PA)
Oxford OX1 3TG, UK                Fax:  +44 1865 272595

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