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Re: splus LME vs. SAS repeated measures anova?

To: Neung-Hwan Oh <ultisol@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: splus LME vs. SAS repeated measures anova?
From: Spencer Graves <spencer.graves@pdf.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 03:13:08 -0700
Cc: s-news@lists.biostat.wustl.edu
In-reply-to: <67249fb50607271909r39682d2cx835d4b316e2e215a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <67249fb50607271909r39682d2cx835d4b316e2e215a@mail.gmail.com>
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Have you tried the "Centre for Multilevel Modelling" at the University of Bristol (www.mlwin.com)? This web site includes a benchmark set of data sets and separate reviews of capabilities of different "MLM" software with answers and timing. I found no unified comparison table, but the information required to construct your own seems to be there.

I have not used SAS in many years, but from what I've heard, I believe the output will be quite similar in most but not all cases.

If you have access to SAS, could you please try the following silly little test case for me:

tstDF <- data.frame(group=letters[1:5], y=1:5)
fitOops <- lme(y~1, data=tstDF, random=~1|group)
VarCorr(fitOops)
var(tstDF$y)

          In S-Plus 6.2 and R 2.3.1 (with nlme 3.1-75), I get the following:
        
> VarCorr(fitOops)
group = pdLogChol(1)
            Variance  StdDev
(Intercept) 2.1917808 1.4804664
Residual    0.3082192 0.5551749
> var(tstDF$y)
[1] 2.5

Using lmer (with lme4 0.995-2 and Matrix 0.995-12), I get the following:

fitOops4 <- lmer(y~1+(1|group), data=tstDF)
 Groups   Name        Variance Std.Dev.
 group    (Intercept) 1.81818  1.34840
 Residual             0.68182  0.82572

This is, of course, silly, because there are zero degrees of freedom to distinguish "group" from Residual. It is comforting that the sum of the variances sum to the variance of "y", though the split between "group" and Residual is different. However, I would prefer to have the multilevel software catch this case and optionally return an error or drop the redundant group with a warning.

          Hope this helps.
          Spencer Graves

Neung-Hwan Oh wrote:
Hi.
Is there someone who has used both S-Plus lme and SAS repeated measures anova? Is there a good reference which compared the both methods? I am wondering whether the output would be exactly the same for an analysis with repeated measures. Thanks in advance. NH

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